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Poster: kdern Date: Sep 27, 2011 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 1972 vs 1977

I'm just learning about the different Dead periods and am wondering what you all think about this... how would you describe the difference in the 1972 vs 1977 Dead? How would you describe differences in their performances on the same songs?

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Well part of the problem is their repertoire changed a lot by '77, so it's hard to compare. One difference is the band started doing more jamming on the songs in '77; tunes like Brown Eyed Women, Jack Straw, Deal, and Sugaree were considerably more jammed out in '77.

The trade off is the jams are far more "Jerry-centric" and the group improv becomes practically non-existent. Therefore, unless I'm in a guitar-wank moood I typically prefer '72, and I think '77 is rather overrated.

This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2011-09-27 23:48:25

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 27, 2011 1:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Well Morning Dew got longer and more intense by 77. 5/22 and 5/8 likely take the cake as THEE best performances ever played, though I'd prefer the 72 morning dews over all the others, love the sound. Dew also was played about 30% as much in 77 than 72. It became less influenced by bob's guitar work. IMO his playing during morning dew in 72 is a prime example of his best work. Check out 1972-10-18 to see what I mean, hes up in the mix and playing exquisitely.

Friend of the devil slowed down and became much longer. compare DP 36 (9/21/72) at 3:30 to DP 15 (1977/09/03) at 7:45. The song was still however dominated by bobby's playing. Most Jerry sung songs are sweet bobby guitar songs (BEW, Morning Dew (early dews), FOTD) and vice versa for Bobby sung songs (El Paso, MAMU, LLR). When I say this I am referring to the time playing while the other guy is singing. I prefer DP 36, that version is killer and might I exaggerate by saying it is due solely to bobby.

Deal's set up remained nearly the same. (as it changed once donna and keith left, to a much more epic structure). It did change with the addition of Bobby and Donna on vocals. It seemed to become more of a family affair, instead of a Jerry tune. The late 70s versions are unfortunately followed by 2-3 minutes of "don't you let that deal go down, waitin til that come round". The egypt 78 version is a good example of this, but not 77. The song got longer because of this vocal jam at the end, but other than that, which was due to the addition of bob and donna vocals, it didn't change much. Its a bit more rockin in the late 70s. But the 80s is where deal is really slick.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

72 vs. 77.... it's a split decision draw

on a side note...'72 I got married & '77 my daughter was born

it's all GD good

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 27, 2011 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Let me pop that E72 out of my ears a moment... quite a different sound, don'tcha think?

The 77 group is now a power-rock band, very polished, can go anywhere. A muscle-car, not a hippie bus. There's a whole new repertoire since 72 - lots of favorites in this list for many heads - Scarlet/Fire, Minglewood, Lazy Light/Supplication, Peggy-O, TMNS, Estimated Prophet, Weather Report Suite, Cassidy, Terrapin, Samson & Delilah, TLEO, Help/Slip/Franklins and of course, Eyes of the World, to name a few. Some long-time songs have disappeared from the setlists for a while, and Dancin in the Streets is back (!). Dark Star won't reappear until 3 perfs in late 78-early 79, only sporadically after that until the 90s. The Other One is infrequent - only 15 times in 1977.

To my ears, there is a distinct change of flavor - the jamming is more groove-based, and less acid-trip freeform. (Personal opinion - Keith is getting less jazzy, louder and more ham-handed with each passing year.) This is power music for bigger crowds, not intimate halls. Lots of red meat here, not so many courses...

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 27, 2011 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Thats a good summary/explanation of 1977. Its likely the better place to start for an up and coming dead head. The hard part is getting the 77 head from loving climax jams to cosmic jams. I have many a friends who care nothing for dark star. We think each other is crazy.

77 - climactic
72 - cosmic

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Sep 27, 2011 3:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

77 - climactic
72 - cosmic

Excellent - I don't think you can pare it down any further.

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Poster: JihadOMuffin Date: Sep 27, 2011 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

How can you not like Dark Star? It makes their more rocking songs even more rocking! Phil said it in his book that you can't have peak rocking moments without the slow ballad moments. That said I don't like 77 sets as much as 72. Shorter, not as varied. But 77 sounds amazing! There are more Phil shows I believe in 77 than 72, where Phil is just frickin rocking!

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 27, 2011 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

I was saying my friends dont like dark star. I think they're crazy and they think Im crazy for loving it.

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Poster: JihadOMuffin Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

No I understood, I didn't mean you, I meant your friends.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 27, 2011 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

two great years. Can't go wrong with either one. 72 one drummer, new piano sound, more jazzier, country worked better, more free,more swinging, more ragtime, more extended james

77 - two drummers, tight, crisp, loud, precise, just exactly perfect, less really out there extended jams but there are some PITB's that go places and some really nice segways, solid more tight playing, and imo the country did NOT fit in this sound for the band as good even though they ripped some killer big rivers. Obviously some habits never dies with Weir

amazing how the band changed year to year and these are definitely two of the best

This post was modified by johnnyonthespot on 2011-09-27 19:31:36

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Sep 27, 2011 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

great topic but I take 72 anyday, I like many of the 77 shows but as a whole year 72 is just amazing. You can take almost any month in 72 and there are great shows, the fall and summer 72 is amazing, euro 72 amazing and even the early part of the year is great too. To me with 77 after april, may of 77, The shows can be repetitive, to be honest I like 76 as a year more so than 77. The april/may shows are great in 77 but I like 76, because they are just getting back after the hiatus and I like listening to them sometimes bumble and stumble through a show but it is more raw than 77 in my opinion. I love the bombs Phil is dropping in 76. I know I may be a minority in that view of 76 over 77 AS A WHOLE. To me then it is clear that 72 way over 77. But there are many times when I enjoy 71 over 72, again I know I am in the minority but just my two cents. Great topic though!

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Sep 27, 2011 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

The first 5 months of '72 or the last 7 months? It's a totally different ballgame without Pig.

I feel the first 5 months of 1972 are more enjoyable than 1977, but 1977 is for the most part better than June-December '72 (maybe not Veneta).

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Sep 27, 2011 3:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

but 1977 is for the most part better than June-December '72 (maybe not Veneta).

How could you pass over the Texas tour? All the PITBs? I really go to each for different reasons. May I quote wisconsinhead?

77 - climactic
72 - cosmic

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

"I really go to each for different reasons"

thats listening to the dead for ya.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

I guess I prefer to fast forward to 1973, and some of the new songs and extended jams that were dropped into the sets.

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Sep 27, 2011 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

There is a reason 73 is known as the "honey year" !

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Sep 27, 2011 2:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

For the most part anything the band performed in both years, the 72' version was far superior,for the band in 77' creatively and musically was a shadow of it's 72' incarnation.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Sep 27, 2011 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

1972 - Grrrrrr...

1977 - zzzzzzz...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 27, 2011 3:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

are you serious Cliff? 77 puts you to sleep? Not asking which you like more or think is better but puts you asleep?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

I like some music from 1977. But I can't really listen to a show from '77 for more then about twenty minutes without getting bored. And don't get me started on Terrapin Station. What a shitty and boring song. I can't even listen to it!

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Seconded. Terrapin is one of my least favorite Dead songs...

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 5, 2011 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Robert Hunter's Terrapin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDeeWExBrVM&;feature=related

i really like the way robert hunter does this tune. it's got that eerie country sound. very cash-like at times, particularly the voice inflection. his voice changes throughout the song, but at certain points he sound just like cash. his versions of the GD staples are really hit or miss for me but i love the arrangement on this one. i much prefer this to the repetitive sounding terrapin by the GD.

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2011-10-05 15:26:27

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Oct 5, 2011 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Robert Hunter's Terrapin

LOVE this version... all the extended verses are superb, although it does lag in the latter third. thank you...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

I don't like Terrapin either, esp the big orchestral repetitive chorus. I like some versions of the Lady with a Fan part, especially the Weir part but it's never been one of my favorites

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Poster: Reade Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Agreed. I've always been puzzled about Terrapin. So uninteresting.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Both years are equally as horrible. Other than a few magical moments that occurred from '66 - '68, they created nothing that's worth hearing more than once. I can't believe people still paid money to see them after '68. Laughable.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 27, 2011 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

haha! Good one but actually that applies more to William CREAM Tell more. I've heard Cliff talk about the band up until 77

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

To me 1972 has a much more organic sound than 1977, and the transitional jams are miles better. I think the return to two drummers boxed them in a bit, but they seemed happy within that framework (for a while, at least).

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Poster: rastamon Date: Sep 28, 2011 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1972 vs 1977

Anyone shelling out $450 for Europe 72 MUST favor 1972 over 1977. So do I, but i can barely afford tomorrow - lol.

That said, I favor 1972 over most of 1969 and earlier...different strokes.

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